Crypto trading/market thread

Welcome to the Precious Metals Bug Forums

Welcome to the PMBug forums - a watering hole for folks interested in gold, silver, precious metals, sound money, investing, market and economic news, central bank monetary policies, politics and more. You can visit the forum page to see the list of forum nodes (categories/rooms) for topics.

Why not register an account and join the discussions? When you register an account and log in, you may enjoy additional benefits including no Google ads, market data/charts, access to trade/barter with the community and much more. Registering an account is free - you have nothing to lose!

SEC twitter today:

Wi not trei a holiday in Sweeden this yer ?
See the loveli lakes
The wonderful telephone system
And mani interesting furry animals
Including the majestic moose
A moose once bit my sister...
 
Seems there's a lot of pressure to move fast.

...maybe because arbitragers bought bitcoin, with the idea of selling into a new mania?

Like I said earlier...the financialization of bitcoin.
 
Casey Jones said:
Seems there's a lot of pressure to move fast. ...
Click to expand...

SEC is waiting until the very last minute of the deadline for ARK's application to issue their ruling. This has been percolating for months (a year?) now. It only seems like it's moving fast because today is the final deadline.
 
SEC shitshow continues. They posted ETF approval docs on their website for a few minutes and then removed them. Of course, it was all captured by folks waiting for the announcement. SEC website reportedly straining to handle traffic right now.
 

SEC approves 11 bitcoin spot ETFs​

CNBC's Kate Rooney joins 'Closing Bell Overtime' to talk the SEC officially approving bitcoin spot ETFs today.


1:46

www.investopedia.com

Spot Bitcoin ETFs Are Approved by SEC, Cleared To Start Trading Thursday

The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission has approved 11 spot bitcoin exchange-traded funds, which are set to begin trading on Thursday. The approval will make crypto investing more accessible, bringing large amounts of money into the crypto space.
www.investopedia.com www.investopedia.com
 
up $425 dollars the last 30 days

looking for an uptick since the ok on etf’s

i don’t think this is the Moonshot

but it is not will BC hit $100,000 , it is when
 
ETFs were approved by CBOE and will apparently start trading tomorrow. All ETFs have some seed funding so there is some cushion before ETF trading results in buying pressure for BTC. But it is coming. Maybe a day or two of trading. I think the choo choo starts really rolling next week or so.
 
Grayscale, the manager of GBTC, is claiming bragging rights for being the first of the newly approved crop of spot bitcoin (BTC) exchange-traded funds (ETFs) to begin trading, a representative for the firm said on Thursday.

“I am happy to confirm that GBTC started pre-market trading at 4 am EST this morning,” Grayscale’s head of comms Jennifer Rosenthal said via email.
...
Click to expand...

www.coindesk.com

Grayscale Claims Bragging Rights for First Spot Bitcoin ETF to Begin Trading

Grayscale's conversion of its $27 billion bitcoin trust into an ETF was finally approved by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) on Wednesday
www.coindesk.com www.coindesk.com

~~~

Now that the spot BTC ETFs have been approved, anticipation is building that the spot ETH ETFs will be approved. Ethereum (ETH) is up over 10% over the last 24 hours.
 
Last edited:
Begun, the spot BTC ETF wars have:
PTF3RPUIIVACNFO5MUACH26MRA.jpeg


The laser eyes on Ben Franklin suggest quite the battle is ahead as issuers of the newly approved bitcoin ETFs try to scoop up investors' money.

Hours after U.S. regulators approved the groundbreaking products on Wednesday, Franklin Templeton, a 76-year-old asset manager with $1.5 trillion assets under management and its own bitcoin ETF to sell to customers, tweaked its X avatar. It put laser eyes on its logo that features Ben Franklin, the famous 18th century American.

That's a nod to crypto culture, where red, glowing eyes are commonly featured in bio pics.
...
Click to expand...

more:

www.coindesk.com

Ben Franklin's Laser Eyes Suggest a Tough – and Quirky – Battle for Bitcoin ETFs

Franklin Templeton, the $1.5 trillion asset manager, gave its famous logo a glowing, crypto-y tweak after the SEC approved bitcoin ETFs, possibly girding for a tough battle with BlackRock and other Wall Street giants.
www.coindesk.com www.coindesk.com
 
Following a landmark approval by the United States Securities and Exchange Commission on Jan. 10, shares of several spot Bitcoin (BTC) exchange-traded funds (ETFs) have started debuting on exchanges.

As of 2:45 pm UTC on Jan. 11, data from the Cboe BZX Exchange showed that shares of the Bitcoin ETF from ARK 21Shares were trading at $50.18 under the ticker ARKB, those from Invesco Galaxy at $49.59 under BTCO, WisdomTree at $52.13 under BTCW, Fidelity at $44.40 under FBTC, and Franklin Temple at $28.48 under EZBC. The spot BTC ETF offered by VanEck, under the ticker symbol HODL, did not appear to be live at the time of publication but was set for an opening price of $54.92.

On the Nasdaq Stock Market, shares of the Valkyrie Bitcoin Fund under the ticker BRRR started trading in the pre-market for roughly $20 before dropping to $14.10 at the time of publication. Shares of the iShares Bitcoin Trust — offered by the world’s largest asset manager, BlackRock — under IBIT also surged roughly 22% in some pre-market activity, trading at $28.64 at the time of publication.

The spot Bitcoin ETF offered by Grayscale Investments — one of the offerings that likely contributed to the SEC approval of the investment vehicles — opened at $42.25 under GBTC on the New York Stock Exchange Arca, rising to $42.97 at the time of publication. Shares of the Bitwise Bitcoin Trust started trading at $26.80 under BITB, and the Hashdex Bitcoin Futures ETF, which also holds spot BTC following SEC approval, opened at $60.00 under the ticker DEFI.
...
Click to expand...

More:

 
Just watched this on bitcoin - a wealth of information

NEW: Leave The World Behind and Build a New One with Whitney Webb​

In this latest episode with independent investigative journalist Whitney Webb, we discuss:
-The need to build and protect tools of financial freedom
-Bitcoin and Wall Street/government adoption
-Artificial Intelligence and open-source vs. closed-source technology
-Cyber attacks and simulations
-Her latest investigation into the crypto and CDBC world
61m
 
Nothing is at it seems

Bitcoin ETF Here’s The Truth They Won’t Tell You​

15m
 
Casey Jones said:
Seems there's a lot of pressure to move fast. ...
Click to expand...

pmbug said:
... This has been percolating for months (a year?) now. ...
Click to expand...

I was off by a tiny bit...

It’s been over ten and a half years since the Winklevoss twins first filed for a bitcoin (BTC) exchange-traded fund (ETF) in July 2013.

This filing, covered by CoinDesk in its first year of operation, was ultimately unsuccessful – despite multiple re-submissions – but serves as an interesting time capsule to look at how the industry has changed and matured since then.
...
Click to expand...

More:

 
What you bet...

Bitcoin ETF just came out today as a commodity. All the bitheads are champing at the 'bit' that this is going to be a great thing because of all the institutional money coming into BTC.

Blackrock (the Death Star) controls the ETF and they'll do to BTC what they've done to gold. They'll sell 'paper' bitcoin contracts on the open market and depress the price just as they do with gold.
 
Goldhedge said:
...
Blackrock (the Death Star) controls the ETF ...
Click to expand...

They control one ETF. There are 10 others managed by other companies. They are all now competing for those institutional dollars.

While it's possible that the ETFs may in the very long term lead to the type of market manipulations you are speculating, in the near term, it's likely to be just like when spot gold ETFs were approved - very bullish.
 
If I recall, they've all bought each others stocks... one big happy family....
 
pmbug said:
I was off by a tiny bit...



More:

Click to expand...
I don't think anyone took either bitcoin or the move to financialize it, seriously.

For one thing, it's not a typical investment. You invest in CRETs, at base, you own land and structures. You buy securities, you own a share of both the tangibles and intellectual properties, and you own part of the dynamic of a functioning business.

What do you own with these tokens? This has been done to death, and I'm not interested in re-hashing THAT. There are only two reasons I can see to get into these:

--Move money across national borders;

--an alternative protection against deliberate government currency debasement/destruction.

To buy into it, just because it's expected that OTHERS are gonna buy HIGHER, LATER...is foolishness the essence of which was Tulip Mania.

You disagree, and there's no need to get into a food-fight. I just think that both the mindset and the expectation of what might actually happen, shifted quickly in a short time.
 
pmbug said:
Care to give us an executive summary of any interesting points?
Click to expand...
well, I watched it last night.

Whitney Webb has an encyclopedic memory for so many things I couldn't even do it justice. I barely understand bitcoin.

Best to run it in the background while surfing and listen... or

Transcript​

Follow along using the transcript.
Show transcript

or
Drop the needle:

00:00 Confronting the disconnect
3:24 Centralization and corruption
11:25 Bitcoin 2024 promo
11:57 Coinkite ColdCard Wallet promo
12:25 CrowdHealth promo
13:05 Tech problem is bigger than regulations
17:36 Is OpenAI actually open?
19:55 Government using AI; Tesla robot attack
26:58 FTX, Binance, CBDC
34:35 Orange Pill App promo
35:11 iTrustCapital promo
35:30 Bitcoin Evangelism book promo
36:20 Government using Bitcoin
42:53 Can government co-opt Bitcoin?
47:19 Election simulations
55:22 Leave the World Behind
57:56 Eliminating online anonymity
 
Casey Jones said:
... I just think that both the mindset and the expectation of what might actually happen, shifted quickly in a short time.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how closely you've been following crypto, but technology (and industry expectations) moves very fast in this space. That said, the pacing for the ETF approval has been held up for years by bad faith on the part of Gensler, Dem Commissioners in the SEC, E. Warren, et al. It took Grayscale fighting the SEC in courts for years and finally winning a knockout judgement for the SEC to stop it's malfeasance.
 


Backlash (ie. people closing/moving their accounts) against Vanguard has been brewing all morning. I guess Merrill is going to join them in cutting off their nose.
 
They don't think it's the kind of investment they'd want to back.

It's probably the only responsible move they've made in years. Seriously.

It simply IS NOT an investments. You buy Ford stock, the business generates cash...money for product. You buy bonds, government or corporate, you are paid for the use of the money the bond represents.

What can you say about the "investment" of bitcoin? Would you want to see a precious-metal ETF in such a place...speculating over the price of PMs, and maybe rehypothecating the actual bullion?
 

EP 3255A - THE ENTIRE WORLD IS ABOUT TO CHANGE FOR THE GOOD, CONTROL OF CURRENCY SHIFT​

As the cold weather rushes in the EU nations are finding themselves in a tough position, energy costs are up and some nations are turning back to coal. The EV market is dying a slow death, rental cars services are replacing EVs with gas power cars. The world is about to change, Bitcoin ETFs have been approved.
16m
 
pmbug said:


Backlash (ie. people closing/moving their accounts) against Vanguard has been brewing all morning. I guess Merrill is going to join them in cutting off their nose.
Click to expand...

Whaaaaat? Problems already!?
 
Goldhedge said:
Whaaaaat? Problems already!?
Click to expand...
Vanguard is not managing an ETF. They are preventing their customers from buying any of the ETFs that were approved. Their customers are reportedly closing accounts and moving to Fidelity or another broker.
 
pmbug said:
Vanguard is not managing an ETF. They are preventing their customers from buying any of the ETFs that were approved. Their customers are reportedly closing accounts and moving to Fidelity or another broker.
Click to expand...
Every brokerage house has its products - it chooses what it thinks fits well for its desired customers. Either using beneficient parameters, or through untoward formulae; but they select what they will sell.

That's their choice.
 
Vanguard’s decision to not offer its users access to bitcoin ETFs has sparked a backlash among some customers, who have decided to close their brokerage accounts and move their money to other platforms.
...
Julian Fahrer, co-founder and chief executive at Apollo, a review platform for bitcoin-related products, said on X, formerly Twitter, that he requested to transfer his 401(k) account from Vanguard to Fidelity.

“It took about 15 minutes,” Fahrer tweeted.
...
Oher crypto enthusiasts expressed similar feelings on X.
...
As investor interest in bitcoin ETFs appear to be high, financial institutions that don’t offer access to the trading of such products may suffer from user outflows, said Frank Corva, senior analyst for digital assets at comparison website Finder.com.

“Financial institutions that ignore bitcoin and hinder their clients from getting access to the asset will likely be punished in the form of their clients moving their money to institutions that accommodate their desire to get exposure to bitcoin,” Corva wrote in emailed comments.
Click to expand...

www.marketwatch.com

Some Vanguard users blocked from buying bitcoin ETFs are transferring their funds to crypto-friendly competitors like Fidelity

Vanguard's decision to not offer its users access to bitcoin ETFs has sparked a backlash among some customers, who have decided to close their brokerage...
www.marketwatch.com www.marketwatch.com
 
...
While several things happened in the weeks leading up to their debut, some related to implied volatility and the options market are worth noting as speculators look at ether (ETH) as the next likely candidate for a spot ETF approval.

Implied volatility represents investors' expectations of price turbulence and positively impacts the prices of call and put options. A call allows buyers to profit from or hedge against price rallies, while a put offers protection against price slides.

When facing a binary event such as the earning’s date in a stock or the SEC’s decision on spot ETF applications, traders tend to buy options to build a “long vega” position that benefits from increases in implied volatility. The strategy, however, exposes traders to a potential post-event crash in volatility and the resulting slide in options prices.

That’s precisely what happened in the bitcoin market, a lesson for ether traders that holding a long volatility exposure on the day of the ETF announcement may be risky, according to crypto quant researcher Samneet Chepal.
...
Several firms have filed applications for spot ether ETFs, including BlackRock, in November 2023. The earliest deadline for approvals is in May for VanEck’s ETF, followed by BlackRock’s in August.
Click to expand...

More:

 
Last edited:

Here’s Some Bitcoin: Oh, and You’ve Been Served!​

A California man who lost $100,000 in a 2021 SIM-swapping attack is suing the unknown holder of a cryptocurrency wallet that harbors his stolen funds. The case is thought to be the first in which a federal court has recognized the use of information included in a bitcoin transaction — such as a link to a civil claim filed in federal court — as reasonably likely to provide notice of the lawsuit to the defendant. Experts say the development could make it easier for victims of crypto heists to recover stolen funds through the courts without having to wait years for law enforcement to take notice or help.

Ryan Dellone, a healthcare worker in Fresno, Calif., asserts that thieves stole his bitcoin on Dec. 14, 2021, by executing an unauthorized SIM-swap that involved an employee at his mobile phone provider who switched Dellone’s phone number over to a new device the attackers controlled.

More:

 
Voodoo said:
Of course it will be approved. It WILL be used to manipulate and control Bitcoin... Just like all the other commodity ETF's.

So you shouldn't be a fan if you actually are bullish Bitcoin.

The two "authorized" participants... JPM and Virtu Financial The two biggest cons on the planet.
Click to expand...

If you really got fooled by this for like the 50th time then shame on you.

404 | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

1705109932912.png

The ETF starting to manipulate prices and it marks the high, again.
 
From what I've been reading, almost half of the trading volume in the ETFs was with the GrayScale ETF. Also, most of that was selling, forcing Grayscale to dump BTC (according to what I read).

Grayscale converted a trust to their ETF. They already had massive assets in the program. Their ETF also has fees more than 2x the other ETFs.

I suspect a lot of GrayScale selling was folks rotating out of GrayScale and into one of the other ETFs. It's not clear what the lag time is between inflows and BTC (underlying asset) buying, but I suspect they have a few days. If I am right in this understanding, BTC will recover next week.
 
...
The Grayscale Bitcoin Trust is often believed to be one of the largest single holders of Bitcoin in the world. In a Sept. 6 social media post, Arkham claimed that the trust held over $16 billion worth of the cryptocurrency. Current Arkham data estimates the trust’s holdings at $27 billion, as the price of Bitcoin has risen over the past few months.

Shares of GBTC have been traded since 2013 but were not redeemable for Bitcoin until Jan. 11. Because of the irredeemability of the shares, they have often traded at a steep discount to their net asset value, or the value of the Bitcoin they represent. For example, in October, each share of the trust was worth 16% less than the amount of Bitcoin it represented.

On Jan. 12, the day after multiple Bitcoin ETFs began trading, Arkham Intelligence data showed that the trust sent 894 BTC to Coinbase in one transaction and another 2,607 BTC to other wallets in three other separate transactions. The amount sent to Coinbase represents $41 million in outflows, or approximately 0.15% of the Grayscale trust’s total holdings, while the remaining outflows to other wallets represent an additional $119 million, or 0.44%.

On the same day that these outflows occurred, Bitcoin’s price went into a sudden downturn, falling from approximately $46,000 to slightly above $43,000 by 6:47 pm UTC. The fall resulted in the break of a strong line of support at $44,740.

Despite the small amount of outflows shown by Arkham, some X users theorized that the downturn may have been caused by redemptions of GBTC shares, as holders of these shares finally got the chance to cash out. ...
Click to expand...

More:

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom