Rare Earth Metals

rblong2us

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From where I sit, science has been gravitating toward too much specialization, too much hustling for funds, and as a result, no progress and accidental re-invention of stuff known in the '50s and before
Thank you DCF
I love the way you are able to take topics that are considered too complex for 'outsiders' to understand and break em down into descriptions that are within, or close to, comprehension.

I have long shared your view that specialisation has simply created lots of unconnected information and we no longer have the likes of Nikola Tesla to pull it all together.

This turned up in a mail from Jeff Barwick ( Dollar Vigilante ) a few weeks ago,
seems like an opportunity to share it -



Jeff,

Thanks for your insightful article today. It both pains and pleases me that you have seen the light on what is nothing short of a highjacking of the truth in the physics community. Special relativity, quantum mechanics, the gravitational model, and of course String Theory have gifted us with a nearly 100 year standstill in the field of physics. They have come to represent the bureaucratic establishment in the field of physics and like all bureaucracies have obstructed progress, truth, and any significant study outside the fray of these "commandment theories".

The story of how should sound very familiar. Once physics was a true pursuit. An ocean of possibilities for understanding and taking control of our world. Innovators like Einstein, Bohr, Feynmann, Planck, LeVoisseur and Shroedinger made quantum leaps (pardon the pun) towards our understanding of the nature of matter, energy and the universe. But when these discoveries in turn led to rampant industrial advancement, development of powerful weapons, and social progress, they also resulted in the requisite institutional establishment seeking to protect their interests in the former areas.

Because modern physics was such a revolution, returning tangible benefits and wealth, many scientists rushed to understand that which these pioneers had set forth. A logical course of events followed. The first was that Einstein, et al no longer needed a job. They became historical icons, guests of the state, and gods in the scientific world. As a result those in the idea market, specifically folks like Harvard, Yale, MIT, etc saw that their product, curriculum, needed these types of ideas in order to remain competitive. So in lieu of the impossible task of getting one of these 'gods' to accept a menial professor position, they went out and hired those most studied in their theories.

This was the day that science died. You see the difference between Einstein, and the person most studied in Einstein's theories is that Einstein is a scientist and his devotee is a copycat. Though you probably have no experience in this if you are under 100 years old, science is actually about DISCOVERY, not memorizing the incomplete theories of scientists who came before you. And the fact is Einstein, Shroedinger, Feynmann etc were brilliant, their theories, revolutionary, but they were not free from error, nor themselves end-all-be-all answers to the questions of the universe.

So rather than take the wonderful foundations that these men gave us for a new enlightenment in the field of physics, their ideas were instead packaged as a commodity product for universities to hock as long as there was a market for them. You can probably guess where things went from there.

"Oh you have a new theory that CORRECTS the theories of EINSTEIN being taught at MIT and YALE? HA! And who are YOU?"

You see Einstein was so smart it was self defeating. He set the bar so high, that few have come along with the intellect and abilities to individually produce comparable advancements to the study of physics. And from a scientific standpoint that is OK. Science DEPENDS on most scientists dedicating a lifetime to advancing a single idea a single step. This is the reality of true scientific discovery. But with an scientific bureaucracy offering much better pay and more prestige for promoting Einstein's cult of personality, most have traded the pure pursuit of enlightenment for the easy life of selling an obsolete product at a high markup.

As a result we have spent 100 years pursuing the same dead ends that Einstein and Shroedinger ran into, while justifying every failure with the consolation that at least we are wearing the most popular brands. It is another sad case of rent seeking bureaucrats trading something pure and universally enriching for lining their own pockets with a sure buck that they can recycle in perpetuity.

You may be surprised to learn that this neutrino is only the latest hammer to fall on the flawed assumptions of general relativity. NASA Astronomers have for years witnessed particles being ejected from supernovas at many times the speed of light. Forget a difference of 60 nanoseconds, were talking about MULTIPLES of C. Yet rather than believe their own eyes they concoct ridiculous theories about dark matter and corollaries about gravitational behavior so as not to betray the gospel.

Want a good laugh? Ask any Ivy League professor why comets have tails. Is the comet traveling faster than the light trailing behind it? That would be blasphemy save for the fact that this is clearly what everybody sees. Of course the electric model explains this perfectly. Conductive material passing through the web of electrical potential in deep space creates a continuous spark as it disrupts the potential gradient it traverses. Its middle school science, we see it with our own eyes, yet WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE IT.

You were probably taught in school that the sun is made of plasma which is exceedingly dense and a fingernail-sized piece of sun matter would weigh as much as Mount Everest. I know I was. Then I got my first job in a chemical lab, doing metals analysis. We used an instrument called ICP (Ion Chromatography by PLASMA) to separate metals in solutions. The instrument sat neatly on a tabletop, contained a plasma generating ion source, yet weighed about 75 lbs. When I asked the Ph.D. lab director why it didn't weigh a million million tons, she looked at me like I was from another planet.

I got the same response when I asked the same question of another Ph.D. while operating cyclotrons at another job, where we cooked heavy water in a plasma beam to form Fluoride (which of course is Alchemy, another thing that supposedly doesn't exist).

Anyway this is getting a little long but I appreciated your article and wanted to give you a little perspective. I wish I could tell you that the reason that science is ruined is not the same reason our entire society, government, constitution and concept of liberty is ruined but unfortunately it is.

Bureaucrats, rent seekers, and copycats have conspired to ruin perhaps the best chance we've ever had of achieving a new level of enlightenment, comfort and intellect. They have sold us junkscience that is tragically wrong, and defended only through the safety of numbers. Numbers bought at the cost of genuine scientific inquiry and the scientific process itself. EVERYBODY IS WRONG. The electric universe theory fills in all the gaps of the laughable theories in vogue for the last 100 years. But until it can justify the cost of a multibillion dollar supercollider or Universities admitting to selling an obsolete product at premium prices, it will remain behind the curtain. Sad but typical. Thanks for at least giving me hope that there are still a few free thinkers out there...

Regards,

Derek Donohue

Box Scientific
 

DoChenRollingBearing

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Sure am glad that I did not buy Molycorp as a speculation, it is down 14% today. I heard a vague reference at "CNBS" that there is bad guidance for next year.

So, fellas! What do you say re making money in rare earths? Is it that there IS NO money because China has it all locked up (lots of REs there, cheap labor, etc.)?

In an email to Avalon Rare Earths, I mentioned to their lady (my contact) that they should see if they can get a contract with the Pentagon to supply their equipment suppliers who use REs.
 

rblong2us

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Yeah Do Chen

you are probably right to bring us back on topic.

Do we need a drifting waay off topic icon, or is the light emmiting hand already covering this role ? :flushed:

regarding investing in rare earths, I am beginning to see a pattern.
If its important, its getting manipulated downwards by the bad guys and if its the latest 'musthave', its getting the opposite treatment.

No doubt they will switch this around from time to time.

Investment advice is simple, forget fundamentals, find out what they intend to do and when.
 

DoChenRollingBearing

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Yeah rbelong:

That's what it looks like, manipulation... And there are lots of algos out there that are special-made to trip the technical traders too...

---

Probably the same going on with gold, silver and platinum. I just saw at (24hgold.com) that someone says that COMEX is down to approx. 80 tonnes physical, about one month's worth, so cash settlement coming soon... And probably right after I post, someone will have this story up, right here at pmbug!

*** Note that the Bearing knows very little about COMEX machinations! ***

The eBay / 24hgold widget shows about 16% premium (pretty high) for Gold Eagles vs. spot. Silver Eagle premium is very high too (52%). The pattern I have noticed before is that the premiums EXPAND a lot as the sellers do not want to cut prices to match the plunges. Eventually the gold premium gets back to its usual 5.5% - 8.0% which is more typical.
 
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pmbug

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Bump...

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According to the US Congressional Research service, world demand for rare earth elements is estimated at 136,000 tons per year, with production around 133,600 tons in 2010. The difference was covered by depleting stockpiles of previously mined material. World demand is projected to rise to at least 185,000 tons annually by 2015, and to top 200,000 well before the end of the decade.

The result has been soaring world prices. Some of the more prized rare earths trade at more than six times their 2009 prices on the global markets, and more than double domestic Chinese prices, according to data published by an Australian miner, Lynas Corp.
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According to Technology Metals Research, an Illinois-based consultancy, there are at least 426 rare-earth projects under development by some 259 different companies in 36 different countries. Likely sources of new production can be found in Malaysia, Russia, Brazil and India - and at that old Mountain Pass mine in California.

Molycorp, which bought Mountain Pass from Chevron in 2008, went from a standing start to bringing in revenues of $US397m last year, mainly from processing existing stockpiles. The company is restarting mining activity and says it will be producing at an annual rate of 19,050 metric tons of rare earth oxide by the end of September.

David Abraham, a Jakarta-based resource analyst speaking to Reuters yesterday, said adding new global capacity was the only real way out of the impasse, WTO or no WTO.

"The world still faces a critical shortfall of certain rare earth elements," he said. "That's not a China problem, that's a global one."
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10793294
 

DCFusor

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You have to be really careful on supply/demand here. You'd want to know whose numbers you were using, specifically. A lot of times, rosy (for the supplier) demand projections assume nothing else will go wrong with the world, or an optimistic projection for base rate growth is used that pans out wrong more often than not. Their publicity for shareholders is rampant with this stuff.

But when prices are high, things have a real tendency to come online quicker than projected.

RE's are largely used in alt energy things (my car, windmills) and bling (Apple stuff, disk drives) - both of which are often the first to suffer in any downturn.

It does bear watching, but if China slows down further, or the EU or US - the demand will be reduced quite a lot while the hard-rock boys go into overdrive to start making money.
 

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A Congressional Research Service report on rare earth elements suggests the U.S. Defense Department has yet to fully appreciate the severity of the potential impacts a lack of domestic rare earths may have on U.S. weapon systems.

...

... The CSR asserts "the United States almost entirely lacks the refining, fabricating, metal-making, alloying, and magnet manufacturing capacity to process rare earths." The report highlights one U.S. company, Electron Energy Corporation, which manufactures SmCo permanent magnets, now using rare earths for which there is no U.S. production.

Among the elements needed to produce NeFeB rare earth magnets are small amounts of dysprosium and possibly terbium, the CSR observes. "Currently, dysprosium and terbium are only available from China."

"Clearly, rare earth supply limitations present a serious vulnerability to our national security," the Congressional Research Service noted. "Yet early indications are that the DOD has dismissed the severity of the situation to date."

The CRS report suggests Congress consider both short-range and long-range options for securing a source for rare earth elements as part of its oversight role in addressing U.S. national security interests.

Among the actions Congress could take are meeting with defense suppliers at all tiers of the supply chain "to ascertain their knowledge of material shortages and bottlenecks."

Congress could also require the DOD to convene the Strategic Materials Protection Board to define more rare earth elements as strategic to national security, the report advises. So far, the SMPB has only defined one rare earth element, beryllium as strategic to national security.

The report also suggests that Congress consider requiring a strategic rare earth element stockpile to increase the security of the U.S. domestic rare earths supply. "Congress may consider compiling a ‘virtual' stockpile database, with commitments and contracts with suppliers to buy the items when needed."

Other recommendations for congressional action contained in the report include: federal funding of downstream supply capacity where material shortfalls exist; and federal funding of rare earth application sciences in curriculums for military and other government institutes or in national research and development centers.

Should the DOD determine that rare earths fall into the classification of critical materials, CSR advises Congress could institute a new Critical Materials Program.

Finally, the report suggests, "Congress may encourage DOD to pursue joint ventures with other nations, as many other nations are seeking alternatives to a near total dependence on rare earths from China. However, the CRS advises, "It is critical for DOD to consider the implications of sourcing utilized by these partner nations. For example, if DOD relies on a partner nation for its rare earth metals, and that nation procures their oxides from China, this partnership may not provide the requisite security of supply."
http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/mineweb/en/page72068?oid=149437&sn=Detail
 

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Provincial and local officials in China's Guangdong Province have busted illegal rare earth mining operations, recovering 1,000 tonnes of illegally mined rare earths, as well as arresting 50 suspects.
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The mines are spread across a large area in Guangdong, which makes them difficult to monitor for illegal activities, especially since illegal mining and smuggling of rare earths generate high profits, said Xiao Fangming, director of the Guangzhou Research Institute of Non-Ferrous Minerals.

Xiao has suggested strengthening the monitor of the rare earth separating plants in the province, which have a total combined capacity of 15,000 metric tons annually.

The government has approved the mining of 2,000 metric tons of rare earth oxides a year in Guangdong, but actual production surpassed 40,000 metric tons because of illegal mining.
http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/mineweb/en/page72068?oid=156387&sn=Detail
 

rblong2us

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theres all the evidence you need that they are not so rare but the chinese will do what they can to make em rare to everyone else
 

pmbug

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* super necro bump *

Saw this article today and I thought about this discussion:
... according to Renewables Consulting Group (RCG), “the use of REEs has faced criticism due to price volatility and political issues surrounding the supply chain.” Not to mention the millions of tons of acidic pollution generated by conventional extraction methods, and the renewable energy industry doesn’t look so green anymore. That is why Paul J. Antonick and Zhichao Hu, members of the thermodynamics team at the Rutgers University School of Engineering, came up with a natural solution.

They discovered a new way to get these elements out of phosphate rock waste – also known as phosphogypsum. They found out that mineral and organic acids – made by naturally occurring bacteria called Gluconobacter oxydanscould – can do the job instead of using harsh chemicals. If they can figure out a way to scale this new method up, it would mean less of a reliance on REE mining, as well as less, toxic chemicals usually deployed to extract the elements from metal ores. It would be a huge boost for clean energy development.
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This study only looked at synthetic phosphogypsum produced in the lab. Next, they will test if this method also works on waste actually produced by the industry. Phosphogypsum is actually a waste by-product of phosphoric acid production for fertilizers. According to Futurity, “each year, the U.S. mines an estimated 250 million tons of phosphate rock to produce phosphoric acid for fertilizers.”

In other words, there’s a lot of it – about 100,000 tons of these REEs end up in phosphate rock waste every year. Theoretically speaking, the amount of waste produced means the annual production of rare earth oxides could be almost doubled if they can get this to work, even though the elements only make up about 0.1 percent of phosphate rock.
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More: https://www.intelligentliving.co/better-extract-rare-elements/
 

rblong2us

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Theres evidence in pre historic gold mines in S. Africa of the gold having been leached out of its seam without the need to mine a big enough hole around the deposit to access the narrow vein.

So possibly not a new idea but development of new solvents could change things and turning waste streams into useful products is exercising the minds of a lot of smart folk.
 

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Beijing has readied a plan to restrict exports of rare earths to the U.S. if needed, as both sides in the trade war dig in for a protracted dispute, according to people familiar with the matter.

The government has prepared the steps it will take to use its stranglehold on the critical minerals in a targeted way to hurt the U.S. economy, the people said. The measures would likely focus on heavy rare earths, a sub-group of the materials where the U.S. is particularly reliant on China. The plan can be implemented as soon as the government decides to go ahead, they said, without giving further details.
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-earths-plan-ready-to-go-if-trade-war-deepens
 

rblong2us

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is Gold a heavy rare earth ?

China seems to already have taken steps to restrict exports ....... (-;
 

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Canada’s Medallion Resources Ltd (MDL.V) ... said it is seeking proposals from contractors to help build a plant to process the metals from the reddish-brown phosphate mineral monazite, a sand containing high concentrations of rare earths.

The company has relationships with monazite suppliers in the U.S. Southeast, but likely would build its plant in the center of North America, eyeing the region between Texas and Saskatchewan, Chief Executive Officer Don Lay said in a an interview.
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The company declined to provide financial figures for the project or lay out a timeline.
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California’s privately held Mountain Pass mine is the only operating U.S. rare earths facility, while Australia’s Lynas Corp Ltd (LYC.AX) in May agreed to build a rare earth processing facility in the country with Texas-based Blue Line Corp.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...or-rare-earths-extraction-plant-idUSKCN1U4168

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Since 2011, when Scott became the president and CEO of Littleton, Colorado-based Rare Earth Resources, the veteran mining executive and metallurgical engineer has been trying to get a massive stash of rare earth — a metallic element that's used in cellphones, electric vehicle batteries, fluorescent lights, defense, clean energy and much more — out of Bear Lodge, a small mountain range tucked away in the northeast corner of the state, about 40 miles from South Dakota's border.

According to mining experts, Bear Lodge is home to one of the richest and highest-grade rare earth deposits in the U.S., with an estimated 18 million tons of rare earth inside. Scott thinks there could be more than that. "It's an enormous, and enormously important, deposit," he says.

But despite efforts to get the metal out of the ground — Rare Earth Resources has been exploring the area since 2004, while others have tried here and there to mine it since the metal was first discovered in the area in 1949 — it remains stuck in the mountain. "It's a great resource," says Scott. "But we keep hitting a brick wall."
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One issue is regulation — it takes a while to get the proper permits, says Scott. From 2010 to 2014, the company collected all sorts of environmental data, which it then showed to the U.S. Forest Service. In January 2016 it received a draft environmental impact statement from the government agency, which recommended that the project go ahead. Before it could receive the final impact statement, though, rare earth prices cratered — neodymium fell from about $85/kg to about $46 in 2016 (it's now at $75/kg) — and the project had to be put on hold.
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In April, U.S. Senators Joe Manchin, Shelley Moore Capito and Lisa Murkowski introduced the Rare Earth Element Advanced Coal Technologies Act, which would allocate $23 million a year to the Department of Energy and its National Energy Technology Laboratory (NETL) through 2027 to help develop technologies that could extract rare earth elements from coal and coal by-products in U.S. mines.
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More: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/10/wyo...rare-earth-minerals-trade-war-with-china.html
 

rblong2us

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If rare earths become so rare that a countries economy is effected, its government will change the rules so they can be extracted and refined rather than imported.
 

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* bump *

Canada will have rare earth processing plant in operation by the end of 2022 as the province of Saskatchewan has committed C$31 million (about $24m) to build the facility, which aims at boosting domestic supply of the key ingredients for military weapons, electric vehicles and smartphones.

The process of turning rare earth elements (REE) ore into individual products is done in two main stages. The first is the concentration of ore to mixed REE Carbonate. The second is the more complex separation stage that converts the mixed REE Carbonate to commercial pure-grade REEs. The facility, owned and operated by the Saskatchewan Research Council (SRC), will address both stages of REE processing.

The province said it would be the first of its kind in Canada, adding that it is expected to be an industry model for future commercial rare earth expansion.
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Setting an independent domestic rare earth and critical minerals supply chain has become a priority for Canada and, particularly, the United States. Both currently rely on China, which accounts for 70% of global production.
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The 69,000 square foot plant will be located in north Saskatoon and will employ about two-dozen people. The facility is expected to be fully operational in late 2022 with construction beginning this fall.
 

Mining student

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Thanks administrator ;-) That's a very interesting article that I will keep for my records also. I have a keen interest in ''dark horse'' and '' underdog'' stocks that are affordable, with a future.

One of the subjects in a similar branch to rare earth metals ( PS: I'm writing this on top of my head, it doesn't really sound true, I know, but this is not a paid article) is Vanadium. Not really common, most people know little, if not next to nothing, regarding this. It's used as an alloy in tools& reinforced metal doors, panels, etc. My guess is that, until recently, since there was no use aside the two aforementioned in the previous line, and it was also easier to deal with Chinese import.

Now, with the ghost of trade war looming over us, and the fact that the mining industry is kickstarting again...

...not to mention the fact that there is a potential for batteries made with vanadium (the article that follows doesn't go in much detail about this but it's interesting to mention that, as opposed to lithium batteries, they a) last longer b) don't need to ''cool down'' c) don't have much of a carbon footprint
(the graphic sums it up better) mind you, I'm not against Lithium, I just find it very toxic and slightly embarrassing. It was very useful for years, namely in pocket sized rechargeable batteries.

Anyways, I'll also include, for good measure, an article from a Uk-based company that isn't in the market yet. So My first post doesn't sound like a pump N dump. Nice forum! looking forward to add my two cents ;)
 
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